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TBI 454 build up advice (Read 6885 times)
b454rat
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TBI 454 build up advice
02/07/09 at 11:42:55
 
Gonna be building a TBI 454 to put in my 87. Truck is currently a 2wd 1/2 ton, making it into a 4wd 3/4 or 1 ton. Running a NV4500, div case, blah blah. I haven't tore the motor apart yet, so not sure if it needs to be bored or not. Pulled the valve cover when I got it, and it was spotless. Either someone rebuilt the top end, took real good care of the motor, or it has low miles on it. It has 781 heads, think it's a 2 bolt, probly cast crank, not a big deal, don't want a drag motor anyways.

I want to run Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 in this. I had really good results in a TBI 406 I built years ago with this cam. Get the heads redone with proper springs, maybe a gasket match/clean up. Been told don't really need to do anything to these heads, they work good as is. Want to run around 10:1 comp. Did this in the 406, ran 87, never had any issues. No detonation, nothing but pinning you in the seat. Headers of course, with X-pipe and not sure of mufflers yet, but will be 2 1/2".

I have the TBI off a 454 with the injectors. Do I need to upgrade the injectors?? Regulator will be replaced. What about fuel pump?? I need to get a chip anyways, so gonna get ahold of Brian @TBI chips and tell him what I need.

Oh intake will be a Edelbrock performer equivlant, Performance Products I think the name is.


Any problems I might run into?? Advice on anything?? This motor should be friggin awesome in this truck. Being only a 2 wheeler now with a 350 it goes pretty good. But when you add the weight of the axles, tranny t-case, 35" boggers the weight ads up......
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Rock454
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #1 - 02/07/09 at 18:05:03
 
The 454 injectors were as big as they get.  Only way to get more was boost the pressure with and adjustable regulator.  They will support 450 hp or so.  Common fuelspumps are the high pressure 255 liters per hour by Walbro in tank replacements.
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #2 - 02/08/09 at 04:11:29
 
What Rock says, and instead of using the Edelbrock tbi intake with the narrow ports, better use a single plane carb intake with a tbi adapter to get bigger ports to match the better heads.
And a vacuum reffered fuelpressure regulator would be best to use with that combo http://www.turbocity.com/ used to sell 1 bud I can't find it now but recentley they been sold on Ebay to
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b454rat
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #3 - 02/08/09 at 09:17:17
 
Not gonna use the TBI intake, heard they aren't worth a sh!t on even a stock motor. I was gonna use a regular intake, dual plane like the Performer. I have the factory TBI adaptor for the 454 TBI. I found that vacuum ref. regulator, one less thing I need to find.

The fuel pumps aren't too bad, which is nice cause I'm gonna need two...

Hoping that my motor is solid, I haven't had to have a motor bored in a long time, can't imagine how much it costs now. I don't even wanna by the pistons at $300.... Roll Eyes
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #4 - 02/08/09 at 13:06:41
 
better use a single plane intake, people here have used the dual plane to but liked the single plane.
Why 2 fuelpumps ?
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b454rat
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #5 - 02/08/09 at 16:16:25
 
The cam I want is 1600 to 6000 something, not a huge difference but wouldn't that affect low end with the single plane??

My 87 has two gas tanks, one on either side. I wanted to run a Blazer/burb tank, but the exhaust I want to run it will be in the way.
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #6 - 02/08/09 at 19:35:59
 
The edelbrock TBI intake is a dual plane performer line.  The switch to it was a positive for me over stock.
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b454rat
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #7 - 02/08/09 at 20:25:40
 
Hmm, I guess I'll look around for a single plane....
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #8 - 02/09/09 at 13:19:37
 
Some here told me that injection, tbi and multiport likes single plane and carbs like dualplane, I forgot why dough  Lips Sealed
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Bullit
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #9 - 02/09/09 at 14:42:25
 
FI does not rely on velocity for atomization, now injecting at the point of a TB it is still necessary to maintain velocity to keep mixture in suspension thru the ports and to the intake valve and chamber, but not as much as carburator therefore a dual plane is not as necessary as a carb. But in the case of a farily mild under 400 hp motor in a heavy truck it is still advisable to maintain a dual plane with TB injection for fuel suspension. Now go to 500+ hp port injection, higher stall converter, lower gears plus a big cam, a single plane and big airflow is the way to go, not only the way to go but as large as possible the better, this would also apply to a blown mild motor because the air flow is under presure and velocity is not the issue. Note all modern powerplants port injection are single plane design. Even my Wifes 4 cyl HHR is a port injection single plane design, but the mixture is being injected right at the valve. In the next Generation designs as the GM 3.6 liter 6 cyl as used in the Cadillac they have now gone to direct injection, therefore no mixture fall out or puddeling, exact amount on gas/air needed for good performance and  very little need for any restricting velocity. Now the reverse is velocity in the exaust, which is much needed in all but high pressure blown applications.
Some ask why carbs in racing if FI is so much better, many organizations like NASCAR and NHRA Pro-Stock outlaw FI. So why do we run carbs, hummm. Here goes, 2,100 lbs, 1400+ HP, 5,500 stall converter, power band less than 1,400 rpm's and only 25-30 hp gain in this application with FI. (power band is not a issue like in a 4,800 lb truck or drivabilty a factor) Since we have about $12,000 in the carb and manifold setup FI would add another $5-8,000 plus R&D and since we run a bassically Prostock motor were FI is also banned and R&D already done at costs of millions of dollars, but in a much larger displacement, the R&D in a FI mountain motor would be hard for us or anyone  to afford at this time since the Top spportsman ranks are the only ones to bennifit from it. That is the reason we run professionally built motors, R&D done. Wow! again I got long winded, but I love this stuff.
Someone front me $$$$$ and I would like to pursue it in the sportsman ranks, since retirement I have some time available.
Bob H.
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« Last Edit: 02/09/09 at 16:06:18 by Bullit »  

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b454rat
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #10 - 02/09/09 at 17:03:52
 
This is going in a truck, but will be a stick, so dont' need all low end grunt. With the 5-speed, 4.10s and with 35s, I'll be able to use 5th (.73 OD) but can drop down a gear without screaming the engine. 70 MPH in 4th (1.1) will still be under 3k, and should be right in the sweet spot of the torque curve.

I just don't want to gather all the parts only to find out what I got won't work. I have some money to build this, but not enough to keep buying parts that I can't use.....
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #11 - 02/09/09 at 17:27:56
 
Ok, if being emmision compliant is not a factor, and a 4x4 off road 35" tires,  why the TB, here I would recomend a carb say 650 - 750 Holley, or a 1996 up Big block FI Vortec unit  (I donot understand why this unit is not be used, maybe something I am missing)  215 deg. .480-.500 lift camshaft, large oval heads, preffering aftermarket alum. and if budget allows a basic 495" stroker kit, here with low rpm and grunt application (you have the gearing for top end) as I belive you would want in a 4x4 a inexpensive stroker would be up to the job. Why not just find a 1996 up 454" Vortec or a 495" later unit in a salvage yard complete, ECM loom ect, now you have a complete bolt in.
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b454rat
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #12 - 02/09/09 at 19:17:33
 
The truck is already TBI, I will never go back to carb inless it's a drag car or just a play truck. I plan to drive this truck, and don't want to screw around with carbs. Besides, anybody can build a carb motor, why not be different with a TBI?? Will run better, better cold starts, driveability, mileage, need I say more?? I thought about going with Vortec, but can't find a Vortec '54 up here. I just found another truck with a TBI 454 in it.

Emissions isn't a huge deal, they don't really pay too much attention to these trucks anymore...
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #13 - 02/09/09 at 19:30:00
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Silverado-8-1L-8-1-Vortec-Big-Block-Complete-Engi...

I would love to buy one of these and do a swap myself.

FWIW , my '93 has a stock bottom end 454 out of a township truck (88K when I got it) large oval heads , and a cam more agressive than the 268 you picked , and it works fine and makes good power for a "junkyard" engine. I have fueled it with a dual plane performer carb intake , single plane torker carb intake, weiand stealth single plane carb intake , all with a factory TBI and currrently a "Franken TBI" . Single plane is far superior than the Edelbrock TBI intake  Lips Sealed.

TOM
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Re: TBI 454 build up advice
Reply #14 - 02/09/09 at 19:38:48
 
That motor would be friggin SWEET!!!!!! Not a bad deal at all either, even it does cost $500 to ship it here...

But, already have a 454 that I got for a good price, good heads, 454 TB, so might as well use it. Plus I know more bout these than the newer stuff, tho that isn't really saying too much, cause I don't know all that much about TB's.

I hope I can find a single plane intake for oval port without going broke...
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